Western Religions

[Stuart Ellaway]

Ok we're all generally opposed to western religious doctrine and dogmas but what about the underlying philosophies?

I'll actually just throw out the question first and provide a few examples later.

[hedgecub]

Please forgive my ignorance (I blame it being 03:35 ) What precisely do you mean by "western religions"?

Religions that are actually native to the west (North/South America and Europe) are afaict the various religions of the Native North/South Americans, and the pagan religions of Europe, all of which are either dead or endangered. I get the feeling this isn't what you're referring to...

I'm guessing it's the Judeo-Christian religions you refer to? In which case I'm tempted to nitpick about their being called "western", but I'm too ikkle for that

I'm also tempted to opine that "they haven't got any underlying philosophy, they're just spewing mindless drivel", but I'm still in my bitter phase
(Or maybe that's just my personal and slightly warped definition of the word "philosophy".)

*waits for people with more Brane to say something*

[Stuart Ellaway]

Apologies I made that post after playing roller hockey so I wasn't fully with it.

I actually meant major RHP religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I've been reading about Chinese and far eastern philosophies lately hence why I rashly referred to them as 'Western Religions'.

[Hadilath]

This question could apply to both what I would call "scientific" and what I would call"moral" philosophies. I will take moral philosophy first, as that is the more relevant in my view.

Actually,I tend to think that the underlying moral philosphies are a large part of what is "wrong" , in my eyes, with the Judeo-xtian religions. It is for that reason, actually, that I find even the "less mainstream" RHP religions, are philosophically as distasteful to me as the major ones. It isn't a question of which particular deities they decide to follow, but the proscriptions on the behaviours of those followers...Which is the part of the philosophy that seems very similar to me , whichever RHP religion one is considering.

The overall moral philosophical concept which sticks in my throat the most firmly, is of course (to any who know me this should be obvious lol) the idea of setting some external agency to decide what is right or wrong. This I cannot countenance, and it appears to be a common theme in all RHP religions I have looked at, regardless of flavour of the "religious" overtones placed upon it. I do not see how, when you take away the particular deity figure involved in any RHP religion, what is left is any better...as the moral framewhork which remains, still suppots the stifling of the individual for the benefit of the (leaders of the) group. As one might expect, seeing as that was the historical basis for the evolution of such religions. Why would one imagine that the morals incorporated into such religions, would do other than bind their followers more tightly in their places, with or without a non-human figurehead?

I am sitting now, tryign to question whether there might not be even a single piece of, say, the xtian moral code which I would consider worth rescuing from the mess of the rest...And no, to be honest I cannot. I've played the game before, actually, going through every stricture that xtianity lays down and trying to find one I would not willingly break, and find advantage in breaking...And no, I cannot find a single one:) ...Hmm...cept maybe honesty itself...though I am not entirey sure how xtian a concept honesty really is

OK, so much for the moral codes. Now for the philosophy of science within the xtian framework. And again, I find the system sadly lacking...I remember the frustration I used to suffer at college, forced to study the western version of the philosophy of science, and how cut and dried everythign was, in an absolute universe with everythign ordered and in it's causal place...A clock set ticking by this supposed "creator"....
How I longed to say there was more, that this dry, outdated view, was only one way to look at the world! Than, then is what I think of in relation to the effects of xtianity on scientific philosophy.

So..overall, is there anything I would take out of the RHP viewpoint, in either moral or scientific philosophical terms?

I have to say, no. A resounding no!

[hedgecub]

Please don't kill me if I say stupid things I'm still new to this philosophical discussion business

Hadilath said:

The overall moral philosophical concept which sticks in my throat the most firmly, is of course (to any who know me this should be obvious lol) the idea of setting some external agency to decide what is right or wrong. This I cannot countenance, and it appears to be a common theme in all RHP religions I have looked at, regardless of flavour of the "religious" overtones placed upon it.

I've debated with some of my friends about religious morals. Many of them reacted in horror when I stated I didn't believe in any absolute right and wrong. From the ensuing discussion, it seems that they want the right to judge, to condemn, to have absolutes within which they feel secure. They fear what might happen if certain things weren't automatically right or wrong.
I must point out here that my friends are IMO more intelligent and better independent thinkers than your average human being. Some of them I look up to.

Which makes me wonder about the mentality of the average human being.
As far as I can tell, the average human is akin to a sheep. There is the need for certainty, but there is also the need for that certainty to be given to you by someone else.
Having to think and make decisions for oneself carries the danger that it will raise doubts about your worldview. Not to mention that thinking is a lot of effort
Also, there is the need for justification. And when one is disinclined to think and rationalize things for themselves, what better means of justification than to pull out some omnipotent deity and have them back things up for you?

"If I do what this book says, then not only am I guaranteed a happy afterlife while my enemies burn and suffer, but I am also guaranteed that what I do is Right and Ordained By God."

"I don't like homosexuals. This book here says that God doesn't like them either. I like the sound of this god, so I'm going to believe what this book says."


Or something like that.

[Stuart Ellaway]

Some good points made so far. I'll reply to them all and add my own slant to the topic in due course. I have some job applications to make 1st though.