Labour Must Go!

[Naphula]

I'm a Conservative, I make no bones about it. Here's why;

The NHS is a joke. There is still a shortage of beds in this country, despite the continuous rise in National Insurance contributions. The "Tick In Box" mentality is getting on my nerves, and it's causing huge snags. In order to meet targets, doctors are counting any flat surface a bed - otherwise it's their careers on the line. Also, violent behaviour toward nurses and doctors is on the increase as Police are out looking for people who drive on the motorway at 85mhp. Perhaps if the nurses were PAID more, they would be more inclined to take the job. Shambolic.

National Rail gets worse. After another crash in London, more lives have been lost while Tony the tiger chooses to stand in front of Waterloo and the Euro tunnel. So it can go to Paris twenty minutes faster? Great. Could the money have been used to make the rails safer so that no one had to die? Undoubtedly. With delays nowhere near on the wane, where exactly is the promised improvement?

Tony's three main priorities when in power - "Education, education and education". Bollocks. With student grants now practically gone, loans piss poor and tuition fees on the rise, where is the priority REALLY off to? Further down, the problems are worse - primary school teachers having to fork out cash FROM THEIR OWN POCKETS to teach young children. It's not as if they're being well paid in the first place. Pathetic.

Don't even get me started on the war in Iraq, and the flood of bogus asylum seekers flooding into our country. I haven't the time or the inclination to go into that in my first post on the board...

[Helen]

Yes it's a balls-up but I'm not so sure that getting the conservatives in will help much more. You just need to look at the last Tory government which was knackered, sleazy and split from top to bottom.
I take no sides in this Labour/Tory row because I believe they're all the same once they get into power. The reason being twofold
1. Once they get power they'll do anything to keep it
2. Politicians come and go but the admin and senior civil service stays the same.
There needs to be a big change.
I think we should take over ;D.

[Dani]

[glow=red,2,300]Hmm I Like The Sound Of That!

What Laws Would You Bring In Helen?

Dani

Hail Satan[/glow]

FIRST CHURCH OF BELIAL
home.neb.rr.com/belial
FIRST CHURCH OF BELIAL UK
firstchurchofbelialuk.cjb.net

[Helen]

For now a new national anthem is the best I can come up with. It might go something like:
All hail Helen
Beautiful, talented star,
She is the greatest,
She makes magnificent pie........

Good idea for a proper discussion though.
Picking up on a comment from Chris there I would like to see stay at home parents receive more benefits, carers should too. Nurses should get paid more, students should be properly funded, prostitution should be legalised.
In schools in Northern Ireland they always still teach that christianity is the true faith. Non-Christian or atheist children either have to leave the room or sit and indure that. That has to go. If I think of any more I'll come back to it.

[Naphula]

The Conservative party at the moment should'nt be held responsible for the tangled webs of sleaze that have crippled them in the past. Hague wasn't a great leader up front, but he did get rid of a lot of the REAL snaggy ones.

I suppose it depends on what you'd rather. Tories with a little skeleton in the closet, or Labourites who spin their way around every question thrown at them.

Helen said,

"Nurses should get paid more, students should be properly funded, prostitution should be legalised."

I agree with the first two, but I can't see your logic for the third. No doubt you'll explain at some point! But these points are things the Labour government is supposed to stand for, yet seems to conveniently ignore at the moment. Tony the tiger is too worried about being a part of Europe and not worried enough about getting all his shit in one sock in his own back yard. With the Liberal Democrats just winning a seat in a habitual Labour stronghold it's time he started to worry.

Labour and the Conservatives both want to bring the nations people to the same level. The difference is that the Tories want to bring people up, and Labour want to bring people down. I'd be a piss poor Satanist then if I were a Labour man.

[Helen]

But traditional conservatism doesn't seek to elevate anyone's position. Rather it holds that there is a natural born elite who have a duty to look after the little people. We would be the little people because none of us (I assume) have been born into the landed gentry.
Conservatism does not trust the individual. It says that all people are flawed and unable to control their evil instincts by themselves and that's why we need institutions of law and society to prevent chaos. In other words society has more of a say over your decisions in your life by rights than you have. Anathema to Satanism.
Thatcher was no conservative she was a radical and probably was arguably closer to being satanic than all of them. I hate to make the parallel but it's true.
At the end of the day though I maintain that they are all the same when they get into power. There is no longer Tories=right wing conservative, and Labour=Left wing socialist. Really they are all just at best left of centre and all as desparate to keep power as the next. It's true that the current Tory party should be damned for the sins of the former one but if they were in power now I could almost guarantee we would be having a discussion complaining about how messed up they were.

[Helen]

OK, dam.ned? This censorship sucks!

And I've just figured out that you can't say pus.sy.
Pus.sycat? = pussycat

[Helen]

Fuck!

[Naphula]

Yup, the censorship has to go. Dam ned really is going too far.

Helen,

You mentioned about the natural born elite. You have a point there, but at least a person can BECOME on of their elite. I've done it. I started off as a poor lad from a single parent family and living in a council estate in Edinburgh. My chances were limited to the extent that no one gave me any. But with sense, hard work and determination I now hold more prestige than EVERY member of my year at high school who used to think I'd get nowhere. The problem? Why should I try and work hard when Labour design the tax system to shaft me? Dole merchants and illegal immigrants get hand outs adding up to millions, yet I get hammered on income tax, council tax and national insurance. Am I seeing the benefits? Nope. The NHS is diabolical, and due to VAT it's still expensive to live. With property prices skyrocketing, it stands to get worse.

You make another good point about law and order, but most people in this country can't handle the responsibility that comes with a bit of freedom, and abuse it. At least under the Conservatives those who work hard and try to get on, can. Labour does it's best to cripple those with ambition, while those with none are looked after. Want to solve unemployment? Lower dole benefits and up the minimum wage. Will they do it? Nope - that's a Conservative idea. In any event, I don't think society has more of a say than you do - and if they did, could it be worse than it is now?

Anyway, you might well be right about what happens when anyone gets in power. But I trust a Conservative government far more than Labour. At least the tories care about Britain, and not everyone else.

Decided if your'e coming to Guildford yet?

[Helen]

Well you can't become part of the traditional conservatives elite because traditional conservatism discourages social climbing of all kinds. They believe there is a natural order, people have their place and they shouldn't leave it. It was because of Thatcher that the Tory party began to accept social climbing. She really changed everything.Really it's because of what happened in the eighties that the parties are no longer linked to their traditional roots.

Also it could be argued that the reason the NHS is a shambles is because of the irrevocable damage the conservatives did to it. They tried to make it into a profit making organisation when they privatised sections of it and the NHS was never designed for that purpose. The result is a destroyed NHS. I give it another ten years.

Don't get me wrong I'm not pro-Labour. I just don't think things would be much better if the Tories were back in.
Much good it does me though! We can't even vote Labour or Tory over here, just for local NI parties so I'm completely disenfranchised anyway.

[Naphula]

I'd say the Thatcher legacy is definitely the stronger influence for the current Conservative party. Change and reform are needed, and Labour hasn't the gumshie to do it - I think the Conservatives have, but perhaps not IDS...

Hmm - you could try and blame the Tories for the NHS, but I think it's unfair. Is it the Tories who continually up tax and national insurance, pump billions into it, while wasting every penny? Nope - Tony the tiger, once again.

And yeah. Before I moved my village had no Tory standing in it's constituency so I voted for the Green Party, and the "Let's Get Down And Party Party." I don't know who'd have done the better job...

[Hadilath]

Hmm....lol personally I wouldn't vote for _either_ of the main parties...I saw enough of how politics works from the inside, when I was younger and involved with a certain youth section of one of those two parties...policy decisions being made on the basis of who had slept with whom at the conference lol..kinda gave me a healthy cyncism about the whole supposedly "democratic" system.....

.I tend to daydream about the whole system going out the window, and the whole dissolving into a chaos from whch eventually, those who were fittest to rule would emerge.......

.....and on alternate days, I specualte about throwing out the party system and instituting "direct democracy" via the internet....tho of course that would leave the media intact, and whoever owned the means of dissemination of information would still hold the reins therefore:)

BTW Demon Jock I'm jealous......coz I never even get either a Green candidate or one of the "fun" party ones, where I live!

[Naphula]

As a side note, I'd like to say that young party membership is a little "off" to say the least. It has little in common with real politics, but the kids of today are CERTAINLY the adults of tomorrow...

In any event, I think IDS should go. He's a really smart guy, and he's sorted out so many Tory policies but he's not a vote winner - and the Tories need one for the upcoming election.

Who do I think? I'll tell you when I see the people going for the job...

[Hadilath]

Sounds to me like you know exactly what I mean lol...(YC activities can't have changed that much since my day then *giggles*) and yes, they do indeed make the next generation of politicians, one or two of those concerned I know did go on into "grownup" politics lol.....And I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently there:)

[Helen]

So what do all you Tory types think of the idea of Michael Howard being the leading contender?
I don't think it's wise, he's not the most likeable and I'm afraid that's what counts.
I always would have liked the idea of Ken Clarke taking over because I think he's funny.
And Portillo's aspirations to the job are not dead. He may not raise his ugly head now but he will again some day.
But I think it's a job no one can make a success of.
I think Boris Johnson should be Prime Minister anyway. How fucked up would that be!